dets 09 03:56:58 I'm jizzing my pants dets 09 03:56:58 over how good this meal I'm eating is dets 09 03:56:58 X: dets 09 03:58:10 interesting fetish you have there dets 09 03:58:27 newly aquired dets 09 03:58:32 acquired* dets 09 03:58:38 after eating this specific meal dets 09 03:58:40 :P dets 09 03:59:04 I would be more worried about someone not jizzing there pants while eating this dets 09 04:00:19 pasta with sauce made base of thc? dets 09 04:00:22 * Aditional slaps Seedro around a bit with a large trout dets 09 04:00:34 cause, that'd be AWESOME lol dets 09 04:01:26 god damn dets 09 04:01:31 ALWAYS WITH THE WEED WITH YOU! dets 09 04:01:49 :P "in b4 ivan makes a drug comment" dets 09 04:01:55 xD dets 09 04:02:09 but anyway, what did u ate? dets 09 04:02:27 vegetarian burrito mixed with a bunch of vegetables and mushrooms dets 09 04:02:37 with a few sunflower seeds dets 09 04:02:54 and dipping multigrain tortilla chips in the cheesy part of the burrito dets 09 04:02:54 <333 dets 09 04:03:13 sounds tasty U_U, but my stomach is fucked up rite now dets 09 04:03:19 btw multigrain tortilla chips are 1000x better than regular dets 09 04:03:21 where is the meat, i ask you dets 09 04:03:25 WHERE IS THE MEAT dets 09 04:03:29 he said vegetarian u.u dets 09 04:03:34 i do not care dets 09 04:03:36 in some other assholes gut dets 09 04:03:36 ;) dets 09 04:03:45 meh, why would you put it there? dets 09 04:04:03 to fuck with their heads dets 09 04:04:32 i don't like vegan food that much. a girl i went out with was vegan, and being a bit on the chef side, i thought i'd impress her with mad cooking skills dets 09 04:04:56 that's the only time i've ever got indigestion from the food i myself made dets 09 04:04:56 * ben (lykinsben@mf-eba7f24a.or.comcast.net) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:05:10 she was fine though.. lucky bastard dets 09 04:05:18 why cooking skills dets 09 04:05:22 I think what makes it hard as hell to vegetarian or especially vegan dets 09 04:05:24 just bake a pizza dets 09 04:05:31 is you have to realize that you HAVE to eat very diverse dets 09 04:05:44 with meat you get almost all your nutrition from that one source dets 09 04:06:05 well, it's not like i only eat meat dets 09 04:06:09 to be* dets 09 04:06:25 yea ofc :P dets 09 04:06:33 just that particular incident made me hate the word vegetarian dets 09 04:06:43 besdies, she was awful in bed dets 09 04:06:54 besides* dets 09 04:07:18 * Gaia lahkus ([MF] Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )) dets 09 04:07:22 but bleh, at least the salad tasted good in time of eatinh dets 09 04:07:24 eating* dets 09 04:08:12 vegan bad in bed!? dets 09 04:08:18 propostorous! dets 09 04:10:32 I remember when I still ate meat dets 09 04:10:37 and I tried tofu dets 09 04:10:40 I fucking hated so bad dets 09 04:10:47 because I was expecting a meat-like flavor dets 09 04:11:08 but now I think it tastes pretty good, if only a little bland dets 09 04:12:52 about tofu.. well, people usually don't like butsex too, but eventually the get used to it, only it sometimes stings in the bathroom dets 09 04:12:55 or you talk when i am afk dets 09 04:12:57 butt* dets 09 04:13:18 some even might grow to like it dets 09 04:13:23 some like it from the beginning dets 09 04:13:35 hell, it's EXACTLY like buttsex dets 09 04:13:35 you know that very well it seems dets 09 04:14:12 truthfully, i've never had it up the ass dets 09 04:14:29 but i've tried tofu, and some of my friends are gay dets 09 04:14:41 so its not difficult to put together a picture dets 09 04:14:50 and this is from a male-only point of you dets 09 04:14:51 a tofu fucking a gay friend u_U dets 09 04:14:52 well for me I don't care if I die or become a worthless weak piece of shit... I became vegetarian because I slowly realized how similar animals are to humans dets 09 04:14:53 sounds painful dets 09 04:15:57 well, i guess there's a differece. i've shot my own deer, helped grind it into a sausage, and get the nicer parts as meat dets 09 04:15:59 damn it was good dets 09 04:16:06 but luckily for me I actually would say I feel a lot stronger dets 09 04:16:25 i think it aint so bad to eat another human either dets 09 04:16:34 i mean, we are animals, and we've eaten animals all the time dets 09 04:16:36 sange Sean Seedro Sinisterfart dets 09 04:16:37 Sean Seedro dets 09 04:17:12 Seedro, it's entirely dependent on your previous diet. Some start getting more nutrients from their meals if they start watching what they shove down their throats dets 09 04:17:39 u r a fat dets 09 04:17:40 I would only consider eating an animal if I was in a desperate situation and the animal eats animals itself dets 09 04:17:40 I would never eat a deer or a cow for example dets 09 04:17:40 well that's kind of assumptive... dets 09 04:17:59 we see in nature animals that don't need or chose to eat meat dets 09 04:18:09 choose* dets 09 04:18:23 * WarInSerbia lahkus ([MF] Quit: night) dets 09 04:18:35 well, not many animals have such flexible digestive systems as we do also dets 09 04:18:49 hell, most even can't choose their diet dets 09 04:20:11 I'm not fat, everyone else is just skinny! dets 09 04:20:11 well following natural selection the diet that can be digested is that which is brought in slowly through conditioning dets 09 04:20:55 like, how did cows get 4 stomachs to digest grass? dets 09 04:21:07 the basic dieting patterns began too long ago for us to take into consideration here dets 09 04:21:39 well we can try! dets 09 04:22:13 well, the 4 stomachs, teeth patterns and such are just to make their diet of choice more obtainable dets 09 04:22:23 well, not choice dets 09 04:22:25 :p dets 09 04:23:54 the thing that interests me is HOW did they get teeth like that? dets 09 04:24:13 Some magical creater in the sky made them that way? It's set in stone what we have to eat even for further generations? dets 09 04:24:19 I highly doubt that dets 09 04:24:46 nope, these teeth are result of many thousands of years of evolutional trial and error dets 09 04:25:47 i mean, think of it this way: genetic mutations happen, they always have happened. usually the different things die, but when they get an edge over others, their mating chances increase and the gene will be carried on dets 09 04:26:26 in the cattle's third generation, there'd already be at least 2 or 3 cows with very ground teeth dets 09 04:27:32 even if the genes causing it are not dominant, it'll slowly invade the system and eventually shrivel up and kill the not so efficent version dets 09 04:28:07 i mean, if humans were to only start eating grass one day, those with certain teething pattern will have an edge dets 09 04:28:22 exactly, so I'm going to start the trial and error with my own body for my next generation :P dets 09 04:28:23 and slowly, very very slowly, through the "mutants" we'd adapt dets 09 04:28:35 well, there's nothing really wrong with tou dets 09 04:28:36 you* dets 09 04:28:54 i mean, you're not eating vegetables only because you can't digest meat, for instance dets 09 04:29:08 it's your choice, your choice has nothing to do with evolution dets 09 04:29:31 besides, in childhood and early teens, meat must be consumed dets 09 04:29:41 it'll affect the kid dets 09 04:29:47 kid's health otherwise dets 09 04:30:27 at a later date, he/she can munch up all the trees he/she wants, but a healthy died when growing up will prevent many trips to the doctor dets 09 04:30:31 diet* dets 09 04:30:33 ...wat dets 09 04:30:48 show me evidence of this... dets 09 04:30:58 [21:29] it's your choice, your choice has nothing to do with evolution dets 09 04:31:33 well, humans were probably herbiwhorus creatures at first dets 09 04:31:41 so you're saying that if I spend my life consuming nothing but vegetables my kid won't have the slightest edge at this digestion method compared to a non-vegetarian? dets 09 04:31:48 nope dets 09 04:32:10 I'm pretty sure choice is a large factor in evolution dets 09 04:32:13 * Sinisterfart lahkus (Connection reset by peer) dets 09 04:32:41 * ALLIANCE (so_addicted@mf-54d1bad9.xnet.co.nz) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:33:03 well, yes, if some part of the world would decide to ONLY eat one type of food, the ones born with the ability to digest it better will have an edge dets 09 04:33:07 but no, not out of random dets 09 04:33:10 Hello!!!! dets 09 04:33:51 so no, your children will not be able to inject lettuce right into their vein, completely assimilate it and be fed for 3 weeks dets 09 04:34:04 but a thousand years from now, why not dets 09 04:34:39 * da00 (da00@I.Wub.Dashboardy) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:35:00 it basically functions like addictions dets 09 04:35:47 your body will make adjustments to go with your diet, but it will not be transfered to your child dets 09 04:36:16 addictions can be passed down only through the mother assimilating the named substance and enough of it reaching the baby dets 09 04:36:21 I only said a SLIGHT edge dets 09 04:36:27 that can mean unnoticable dets 09 04:36:33 no, not even a slight one dets 09 04:36:37 " but it will not be transfered to your child" dets 09 04:36:38 genetically, you're still the same dets 09 04:36:54 wat dets 09 04:37:10 what do you think is writing the genetics? dets 09 04:37:10 but conditions? dets 09 04:37:13 * ALLIANCE lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 04:37:25 this is assuming my partner is also a vegetarian dets 09 04:37:28 * da000 lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 04:37:36 and thus a vegetarian during birth... dets 09 04:37:59 but regardless I would think my actions would have some merit on the genetics of my sperm dets 09 04:38:00 >.> dets 09 04:38:11 well, if you'll feed the kid same way you eat yourself, then i guess he'll condition himself to best digest and absorb it dets 09 04:38:53 that makes no sense dets 09 04:38:56 but the same effect can be achieved with parents who'd eat normally during childbirth and then go vegan all of the sudden dets 09 04:39:58 or well, the crueler method, continue to eat normally themselves, but force the child to eat the vegan food dets 09 04:40:11 we would still be single cell ameobas or something ridiculously simple if offspring never took the parents traits dets 09 04:40:11 due to their conditions dets 09 04:40:11 like, vegetarianism is a choice, sure, but genetically my body thinks it's a condition to adjust to dets 09 04:40:28 it's passed on through mutations dets 09 04:40:39 evolution is nothing more than controlled mutation dets 09 04:41:18 * ALLIANCE (so_addicted@mf-54d1bad9.xnet.co.nz) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:41:23 but what you're saying is that mutation doesn't exist... dets 09 04:41:32 or is some dviine feat dets 09 04:41:35 not a product of situation dets 09 04:41:36 you won't mutate from conditioning dets 09 04:41:40 .... dets 09 04:41:49 what do you propose we mutate from? dets 09 04:42:03 your GENETIC CODE, the one passed from your parents to your children, will be the same dets 09 04:42:21 there are a few things that alter it, but those are... radical dets 09 04:42:28 most of them will kill you dets 09 04:43:00 I don't have to change my genetics anyway dets 09 04:43:04 merely the genetics of my sperm dets 09 04:43:22 .. which are your cells so will have the same genetic code as you dets 09 04:43:23 Someone said....sperm? dets 09 04:43:27 yes cesur dets 09 04:43:32 Oh dets 09 04:44:14 or close to it dets 09 04:44:26 no, it'll be the same dets 09 04:44:40 very assumptive dets 09 04:44:41 you see, every cell your body makes have the same genetic, or dna code dets 09 04:45:03 well, if you don't spend your evenings in a nuclear reactor, i'd say you're safe dets 09 04:45:05 wheere do you propose genetic alterations come from? dets 09 04:45:21 * ALLIANCE lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 04:45:54 genetic alterations? mutation. dets 09 04:46:04 we all spend our evenings in a nuclear reactor dets 09 04:46:04 a very minor one dets 09 04:46:06 * ethermeme (davistv@mf-864b4111.fuse.net) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:46:16 genetic alterations = mutation dets 09 04:46:19 that's not an answer dets 09 04:46:35 you're confusing conditing with mutation dets 09 04:47:13 well, sometimes, due to some effects, usually beyond your control, the genetic code will get a bit screwed up dets 09 04:47:28 no I'm proposing that's the only thing I can see altering the path of mutation dets 09 04:47:33 or hell, even if the resulting code from parents adds up to something weird dets 09 04:47:59 and what designates which genetic code to use of the parents? dets 09 04:48:29 one half comes from dad, one from mum dets 09 04:48:30 Genetics and "only things" don't really mix. dets 09 04:48:50 It's more complicated than half from dad, half from mom. dets 09 04:49:16 like, if vegetarianism is less efficient than meat eating and less survivable/sustainable... I don't think it will be passed on dets 09 04:49:48 this is assuming it is dets 09 04:50:34 * ALLIANCE (so_addicted@mf-54d1bad9.xnet.co.nz) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 04:50:36 * ALLIANCE lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 04:50:37 Sauropods ate meat as juveniles in order to get big quick. Then shifted to meat. dets 09 04:50:40 well, it won't be passed on anyhow. you can just teach your kid to not eat meat, until somewhere in your bloodline, someone is born who accidentally has better means of digestion for non-meat. and if he reproduces, chances are he'll pass the splice on dets 09 04:51:01 ethermeme, your sentence is broken dets 09 04:51:12 So is the logic here. dets 09 04:51:52 well that assumes it happens in one explosive moment dets 09 04:52:07 and isn't slowly integrated... dets 09 04:52:08 You're not debating micro versus macro evolution, are you? dets 09 04:52:12 Both happen. dets 09 04:52:19 no, you have meat twice. you just said the were carniwhores their whole life dets 09 04:53:03 I guess the point is, is the word "random" really a fair description of why offspring would be different than the parent in a fundamental way? dets 09 04:53:06 Sauropods ate meat as juveniles and probably hid in the forests to evade predators while they were growing. Once they were too big for the predators of the day, they could shift to vegetarianism. dets 09 04:53:23 Sauropods ate meat as juveniles in order to get big quick. Then shifted to meat. dets 09 04:53:28 saying something is random in my books is the scientific cope out of "I have no clue why" dets 09 04:53:40 i got what you said, you just said it wrong and i pointed it out dets 09 04:53:46 cop out* dets 09 04:54:16 Random mutations are a small part of evolution. Macroevolution happens because of damage to DNA, often from radiation. Most of the time, that damage is a very bad thing. One in a million might get an advantage out of the damage. Maybe. dets 09 04:54:35 ok, let me rephrase my "random" dets 09 04:54:46 It's planned randomness in microevolution. dets 09 04:55:06 and our understanding of radiation is very minimal dets 09 04:55:13 changes following a system beyond our current grasp of the universe dets 09 04:55:18 Actually we understand radiation much better than evolution. dets 09 04:55:35 Radiation is easy to test, easy to perform experiments on. dets 09 04:55:39 Genetics are not so easy. dets 09 04:55:50 it would, if the observer had time dets 09 04:55:54 And you can't ethically do random tests on human genetics, specifically. dets 09 04:56:10 Everything is possible given enough time, but that's not how the universe works. dets 09 04:56:23 I wouldn't be so bold as to say my conditions won't have any effect on my offspring... dets 09 04:56:23 Of course I accept it might not dets 09 04:57:18 The impact of your influence on the genetics of your offspring is very small compared to the drastic changes that happen as a result of radiation damage to DNA or RNA. dets 09 04:57:18 yea we see some radioactivity, and how it damages things dets 09 04:57:18 but we are always limited by the scope of the testing material... dets 09 04:57:22 if you raise him as a vegan, he'll prolly digest vegan food better, maybe even have trouble digesting meat, but it shouldn't be passed on to his/her offsprings dets 09 04:57:39 perhaps meat is less likely to damage genetics? Wild speculation, sure, but certainly possible. dets 09 04:57:50 Raising a child vegetarian isn't going to produce a new vegetarian subspecies of humans. dets 09 04:57:56 the testing device* I should say dets 09 04:58:05 ethermeme, that's what i've been trying to tell him dets 09 04:58:14 most likely with current scientific evidence, no dets 09 04:58:25 I'm not so bod to say it WOULD dets 09 04:58:26 As a matter of fact, since humans have been omnivores for so long, you run the risk of inducing food allergies for items that are given to the child too frequently. dets 09 04:58:43 i'd be bold enough to say it won't. dets 09 04:58:44 bold* dets 09 04:59:09 open mindedness is good... dets 09 04:59:16 You're fighting against millions of years of macro and microevolution. You can't do that in just a few measly generations. dets 09 04:59:22 actually, if the child is on a constant diet, it would condition itself to cope with the situation, but his genetic structure will remain the same dets 09 04:59:29 Open mindedness must be tempered by realism. dets 09 04:59:37 I never said that dets 09 04:59:42 can't disagree dets 09 04:59:45 yes you did dets 09 05:00:08 A consistently limited diet isn't good for omnivores. dets 09 05:00:20 you said your diet might induce a genetic mutation in you so that your offspring will have an advantage due to it dets 09 05:00:34 They did experiments on yeast where they put them in survivable but stressful conditions. dets 09 05:00:49 They have short reproductive cycles, so it was like watching evolution in fast-forward. dets 09 05:00:50 it doesn't matter what you it when you've reached adulthood. while growing, yes, it isn't healthy dets 09 05:01:13 eat* dets 09 05:01:18 s/it/eat dets 09 05:01:37 After about 10,000 generations, the mutations built up in the telomeres were incorporated into the main sequence DNA, resulting in a yeast that thrived in the previously inhospitable environment. dets 09 05:01:55 Humans have a similar, 10,000 generation cycle for mutation release from the telomeres. dets 09 05:02:01 * Seedr0 (EVISCER@mf-2e4cfd7d.LoyalistC.ON.CA) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:02:10 10k gens, that's gonna take a long long time for us :p dets 09 05:02:14 yes, but the agrument wasn't originally about that dets 09 05:02:21 that's exactly what it was about dets 09 05:02:21 So if you're willing to make 10,000 generations of children miserable, you'll eventually get a perfectly vegetarian child. dets 09 05:02:23 >.> dets 09 05:02:43 it was whether conditioning actually affects your genetic code dets 09 05:02:53 But I think if you did that, you'd be ranked up there with the worst personalities of history. dets 09 05:03:12 only if you assume human life is superior to animal life dets 09 05:03:15 It can, but only after many thousands of generations of misery. dets 09 05:03:19 Seedr0 Seedro dets 09 05:03:28 seedr0, why would you assume that? dets 09 05:03:28 your opinion of misery dets 09 05:03:43 * Seedro lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 05:03:46 You tell me? dets 09 05:03:48 Misery in this case = sickly children, short lifespans, lots of health problems. dets 09 05:04:00 again feel free to show evidenec of this dets 09 05:04:00 misery is a bad word, lets say inferior dets 09 05:04:03 I've never heard this dets 09 05:04:20 Again, there is no magic substance in meat... dets 09 05:04:21 they'd be physically inferior to their omniwhorus counterparts for a certain ammount of itme dets 09 05:04:24 not to mention the gas problems :p dets 09 05:04:26 other than maybe Ulrich Acid... dets 09 05:04:30 There are certain amino acids in meat that you can't get from veggies, either. Not that people *need* to eat as much meat as they do to get these aminos, but it's a factor. dets 09 05:04:33 which your body can't use afaik dets 09 05:04:49 and you can't get them from dairy? dets 09 05:04:53 No. dets 09 05:04:57 nope dets 09 05:05:01 A few of them, you can. But not most. dets 09 05:05:13 We have canines for a reason. But note that we have many more molars. dets 09 05:05:55 canines? do explain your logic there dets 09 05:06:28 Meat allowed our distant ancestors to have increased brain sizes. Eating meat requires a ripping tool. We didn't use tools back then, so a few of our teeth became progressively sharper as we ate more meat. dets 09 05:06:41 is there evidence of what these amino acids help produce in the body? dets 09 05:06:42 The increased brain size allowed us to develop tools. dets 09 05:06:50 oh, nevermind dets 09 05:06:52 Most of them are related to brain functions. dets 09 05:07:02 sorry, i wasnt thinking teeth dets 09 05:07:09 hehe dets 09 05:07:09 now i get it dets 09 05:07:18 * Blackwidow pats Ren on the back dets 09 05:07:18 how does something liek a cow fit into this? dets 09 05:07:18 There there dets 09 05:07:23 We didn't get an expanded frontal lobe until our ancestors began eating meat. dets 09 05:07:47 Are they the miserable unintelligence from lack of these certain amino acids? dets 09 05:07:52 Cows are dometicated animals, their evolution has been guided by human agendas for thousands of years now. dets 09 05:08:06 [22:07] We didn't get an expanded frontal lobe until our ancestors began eating meat. dets 09 05:08:06 i'm very curious the source of this information... dets 09 05:08:25 I'll have to find a source for that. dets 09 05:08:29 a minute... dets 09 05:08:29 and the science behind it dets 09 05:08:29 because I mean... cows look pretty content to me dets 09 05:08:37 any advanced biology book will do dets 09 05:08:54 http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6549.html dets 09 05:08:54 does ignorance mean misery? dets 09 05:09:06 Ignorance often results in misery, but not necessarily. dets 09 05:09:08 But usually, yes. dets 09 05:09:12 no it doesn't, actually dets 09 05:09:16 or, is there an evolutionary trait in cows to produce these acids without meat perhaps? dets 09 05:09:25 ignorance as its definition equals bliss dets 09 05:09:34 Cows eat a small amount of meat. They'll eat field mice when they find them. dets 09 05:09:38 you're happy until you die. dets 09 05:09:51 Ignorance is not bliss. dets 09 05:09:52 really? dets 09 05:09:57 * Throne lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 05:10:57 yes, yes it is. if you're ignorant to threats, you will either get by it somehow, or die there. either way, you'll live happily on dets 09 05:10:58 * Seedr0 lahkus (Connection reset by peer) dets 09 05:10:59 i mean dets 09 05:11:02 It's not their main course, obviously. But they also use the amino acids from meat for their larger hippocampus. dets 09 05:11:03 fuck dets 09 05:11:08 not on dets 09 05:11:12 you've lived happily* dets 09 05:11:20 You don't live happily on when you are prey. dets 09 05:11:20 * Seedro (EVISCER@mf-2e4cfd7d.LoyalistC.ON.CA) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:11:20 * Seedro lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 05:11:20 * Seedro (EVISCER@PE) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:11:27 Ignorance makes you prey. dets 09 05:11:30 fucking college net dets 09 05:11:31 >.> dets 09 05:11:45 why is being prey related to this? dets 09 05:11:52 The only reason humans are in a position of power over other species on this planet is because of our understanding of our environment. dets 09 05:11:53 but what makes predatorial mindset greater? dets 09 05:11:53 of course someone will eat you dets 09 05:12:12 It's not being predatorial, it's making the best use of the resources around you. dets 09 05:12:16 but if you don't know they will, i don't see any cause for any form of misery dets 09 05:12:19 whos assuming this power is superior? dets 09 05:12:40 Go ask a cow when it's sending a mission to the moon. dets 09 05:13:11 oh, cows have a lovely space programme dets 09 05:13:15 I'm not saying being a predator is superior. I'm saying that species which can better understand their environments have a better shot at survival. dets 09 05:13:18 "Daisy does the moon"? dets 09 05:13:27 they're terraforming Venus as we speak dets 09 05:13:33 She jumped over it, but never landed. lol dets 09 05:13:46 No credit for orbit, you have to touch down. dets 09 05:13:49 lol dets 09 05:14:04 so lifeforms other than human are merely a resource to you? dets 09 05:14:04 going to the moon is cool and all... dets 09 05:14:04 ...but I'm a bit wary of the "evidence" that meat eating is what is getting us to the moon dets 09 05:14:34 No, they're not just a resource. But that's only the result of my compassion, which is a higher brain function enabled by my large frontal lobe. dets 09 05:15:00 Which is there because my ancestors started eating meat at some point, speeding up the development of the frontal lobe. dets 09 05:15:21 it's stil not "fact" man... dets 09 05:15:24 just theory dets 09 05:15:29 So the horrible evil predators led to your compassionate vegetarianism. You owe them. dets 09 05:15:32 ethermeme, how is having a better shot at survival having to with misery? if you don't know of something's existence, it will not bother you. you will die due to that, but you'll lead a content life. instead of those who probably will survive, the animals who are paranoid.. say humans for instance dets 09 05:15:52 content life up to that point** dets 09 05:16:04 Ren, that's a romanticized view of the lives our ancestors lived. dets 09 05:16:05 [22:15] So the horrible evil predators led to your compassionate vegetarianism. You owe them. dets 09 05:16:16 eggy ethermeme dets 09 05:16:40 Ask people in third world countries whether they'd prefer to know why their fields won't grow. dets 09 05:16:44 Ignorance is misery. dets 09 05:16:49 ethermeme, how are our antcestors or romantication even related to this? dets 09 05:17:06 No, it's natural selection! dets 09 05:17:13 yes, cause they know they're supposed to grop dets 09 05:17:15 grow* dets 09 05:17:17 You assume that being unaware equates happiness. It does not. It means that you don't understand why horrible crap keeps happening to you. dets 09 05:17:58 If you can find out why unfortunate events happen, you're likely to try to do something about it. dets 09 05:18:05 actually, i've still to not understand many things, but most of them have i either not acknowledged happening to me, or, i know the reasoning behind them dets 09 05:18:07 And that leads to a lessening of suffering. dets 09 05:18:46 so i'd say i'm pretty damn content with my life dets 09 05:18:55 And we are all still suffering from our ignorance. Even the rocket scientists. Mostly because nobody's cracked the great scientific question of "what do women want?" lol dets 09 05:19:03 but the more you learn, the more you understand the hopelessness of your own stupidity dets 09 05:19:12 That's ridiculous. dets 09 05:19:43 The more you learn, the more awe you will have at the incredible scope of the universe around us. The more you will revere it. The more you will respect it. And the more you will try to interact with it at a higher level. dets 09 05:19:55 ignorance is misery if you choose it dets 09 05:19:55 if you are stuck either way dets 09 05:19:55 you don't know the difference dets 09 05:19:55 nobody can fully understand why horrible crap happens to them dets 09 05:20:03 the more you know, the more you will ask questions. questions you are yet to be able to answer. dets 09 05:20:06 Ignorance is always misery. dets 09 05:20:13 no, stupidity is dets 09 05:20:29 ignorance is not being aware of there even being a question to ask dets 09 05:20:29 But you can know. It takes a rational mindset to setup an experiment. dets 09 05:20:51 Actually, stupidity appears to be quite fulfilling for the stupid. Case in point: Fans of Sarah Palin. dets 09 05:21:01 But stupidity is not ignorance. dets 09 05:21:04 * Blackwidow chuckles dets 09 05:21:17 Stupidity is intentionally disavowing what your rational mind knows because of some other agenda. dets 09 05:21:23 Ignorance is just not knowing. dets 09 05:21:27 you're refusing to understand for some reason dets 09 05:21:37 this is actualy a good convo, never though I'd see anything this deep on here :) dets 09 05:22:24 Ok, here's a brain twister for you: What's the difference between ignorance and innocence? dets 09 05:22:59 exactly. If you do not know that your fields are supposed to grow better, how could you worry about that? if you did not know there was a tarantula in your drawer, you wouldn't worry about that. if you did not know there's are foxes who like eating you, you would not feel threatened, thus you wouldn't worry. dets 09 05:23:19 that's not ignorance, that's the unanswered questions i spoke of dets 09 05:23:27 the more you know, the more you will have to know to get by dets 09 05:23:42 but knowing those things is impossible, you need to assume dets 09 05:23:46 Until you know someone that's starving to death, bitten on the hand and attacked by rabid foxes. Then you'll be worrying plenty. dets 09 05:23:48 it sounds like you just agreed with Ren actually.. :P dets 09 05:23:48 and I can't disagree, if you disobey your rationality you'l be miserable dets 09 05:23:48 but if you're ignorant it makes no difference dets 09 05:23:48 we are in a perpetual state of ignorance vs awareness dets 09 05:23:48 those with less awareness have less to worry about, yet are lucky enough that most things to worry about aren't as bad as they are made out to be in some cases dets 09 05:24:03 * Anudria (lolo@251e7a.187726.09080c.dea39d) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:24:11 often prepare the for the worst to happen. that's paranoia by definition dets 09 05:24:19 Seedro, you have amazing laf dets 09 05:24:21 lag* dets 09 05:24:22 well I wouldn't use the word "assume" dets 09 05:24:34 Being overly concerned with phantom threats is ignorance, now awareness. dets 09 05:24:35 but I'd say you have to work with the probability and dets 09 05:24:35 yea sorry this college net is fucking shit during peak hours dets 09 05:24:45 no, it's limited awareness dets 09 05:24:50 not awareness dets 09 05:25:01 well that's the whole journey... dets 09 05:25:07 phantom threat vs awareness dets 09 05:25:29 with more awareness you need to devote more time to decifering phantom threats dets 09 05:25:35 I don't think any of us can really appreciate how soul-crushingly difficult it was for our ancestors to survive from day to day. dets 09 05:25:39 * Cookiee lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 05:25:50 that's quite assumptive in my books dets 09 05:26:02 With more awareness, you can get out of the way of oncoming traffic and not wind up in the hospital. dets 09 05:26:08 Again, ignorance = suffering. dets 09 05:26:11 their survival may have been (and I would argue probably WAS) just as enjoyable as a game of WoW to us dets 09 05:26:14 * da000 (da00@bf8acc.27c8d6.d77850.d830d3) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:26:18 * Anudria lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 05:26:21 in fact in a lot of ways I envy them dets 09 05:26:33 although I'm sure staring at my position they would envy me dets 09 05:26:39 That's hilarious. dets 09 05:26:41 * paladin_jack kannab nüüd nime P_J_sleeps dets 09 05:26:42 yes, but with awareness, you'd be concerned about being ready to get out of the way dets 09 05:26:53 :( well now you're just being demeaning dets 09 05:26:54 * Cookie (anadn@a63a26.83b507.97ab26.81f0a5) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:27:43 lets look at it this way: if there was this huge-ass asteroid heading for earth dets 09 05:27:46 like in a thousand years, pretend there is a society that no longer teachs the frivulous nonsense in school and guarentees jobs to all of those who spend the time learning about it.. dets 09 05:27:54 Will they necessarily be happier than us? dets 09 05:27:58 The only thing that makes past lifestyles more fulfilling than current lifestyles is romanticism. dets 09 05:28:03 and we wouldn't know about it, we'd live happy lives until it hits dets 09 05:28:10 or maybe passes dets 09 05:28:14 we'll never know dets 09 05:28:24 but at least we'd die not worrying about it dets 09 05:28:26 They will find new things to worry about and make themselves miserable in their own way dets 09 05:28:40 if we do know about it, we worry, panic, try to prevent it and so on dets 09 05:28:55 sane life would end before the asteroid even got here dets 09 05:29:07 Ok, simple example: A massive asteroid is heading toward earth. If it hits, we'll all suffer for generations. But if we know it's coming, we might be able to send a gravity tractor out to intercept it and tow it off course. dets 09 05:29:26 * da00 lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 05:29:32 Which is the better outcome, generations of misery, or a generation of struggling to overcome the threat? dets 09 05:29:45 if it hits, there won't be many left to have generations after them dets 09 05:29:46 of course ignorance doesn't promote survival(except in usa, apparently), but it lets you lead a more fufilling life, due to less phantom threats(nice expression btw) dets 09 05:30:11 LIFE UNTIL IT LASTS dets 09 05:30:11 wheres the misery? dets 09 05:30:18 Lame. dets 09 05:30:31 Let's just say I think we need challenges to be happy. dets 09 05:30:35 It hits. Some people get badly hurt, most of them die near instantly with little misery... dets 09 05:30:36 There's a big crater to stare at for field trips.. dets 09 05:30:41 We're well-suited to fixing our own problems. dets 09 05:30:52 I don't think we are against awareness ether... dets 09 05:30:55 And those who feel overly stressed simply don't understand the situation well enough. dets 09 05:31:19 yes, but what about challenges you can do nothing about? its easier to discard them, not think of them dets 09 05:31:25 for instance, entorpy dets 09 05:31:31 merely stating that there is no ultimate awareness point where the worrying is gone and understanding is so high no misery is ever felt dets 09 05:31:45 Ah, but even entropy may be conquered some day. dets 09 05:31:56 Not that you can stop entropy. dets 09 05:32:23 But we may find a loophole that we can engineer, a way to survive beyond the heat death of accelerating universal expansion. dets 09 05:32:29 then we'd be done. that'd be the high point, the ultimate, ever longed-for bliss from knowledge dets 09 05:32:31 without pain there is probably no pleasure dets 09 05:32:34 the answer to "life" if you may dets 09 05:32:50 until then, it's a straight streak of misery dets 09 05:32:53 The answer is meaningless if you cannot use it. dets 09 05:33:16 at that point, i think merely knowing it would be enough to make something happen dets 09 05:33:22 Only a petty, vindictive god would sentence its creations to such an existence. dets 09 05:34:00 true, i don't think any god would let you ascend to its level dets 09 05:34:08 not petty or vindictive, just got a really bad sense of humour dets 09 05:34:25 We've been given amazing tools of deduction, intercomparison, analysis, synthesis, abstraction generation. To sit on those tools instead of using them would be the height of stupidity. dets 09 05:34:27 I mean come on, look at the duck billed platypus dets 09 05:34:44 Actually, I think our primary function is to exceed our creator. dets 09 05:35:03 if there's anything to achieve dets 09 05:35:05 I hope my son exceeds my intelligence some day. dets 09 05:35:16 maybe it in all its perfectness just want so have a beer with someoine dets 09 05:35:19 someone* dets 09 05:35:26 wants* dets 09 05:35:29 I don't think experience can happen without pain dets 09 05:35:29 existence without pain - is without pleasure - is boring... dets 09 05:35:29 oh I absolutely think we should use them dets 09 05:35:33 Achievement may be a fleeting objective, but the plateau afterward is well worth it. dets 09 05:35:35 * Dom|Studying kannab nüüd nime Dom|Away dets 09 05:36:33 * Seedro lahkus (Connection reset by peer) dets 09 05:37:02 One of the models of divinity that I prefer is one where the consciousness of God was bored of infinite perfection and nothing happening, so it divided itself into many small parts, and passed through a "veil of ignorance", to intentionally forget the sum of knowledge. So that there was something to do, basically. dets 09 05:37:35 i actually like the... um, what was his name dets 09 05:37:37 a writer dets 09 05:37:40 lemme look it up dets 09 05:37:56 his definition of god was brilliant dets 09 05:39:23 ah, Isaac Asimov's "The Last Question2 dets 09 05:39:24 "* dets 09 05:39:33 enjoy dets 09 05:39:34 http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html dets 09 05:39:38 I like Asimov. dets 09 05:40:07 2061? dets 09 05:42:03 look at the date it was written on dets 09 05:43:01 it's kind of like reading William Gibson's earlier works dets 09 05:43:10 like Neuromancer or sth dets 09 05:43:32 Wow, 50s. dets 09 05:43:44 They thought they sun would burn for 20 billion years more. Amazing. dets 09 05:44:11 something tells me they were just pulling those out of their asses dets 09 05:44:20 more percisely, he was dets 09 05:45:17 Asimov knew more about cosmology in the 50s than just about any other human. It was based on some data. dets 09 05:45:24 It just happened to be bad data. dets 09 05:45:55 why is there a hole in the bottom of my drink pack dets 09 05:45:58 why?! dets 09 05:46:36 see, if i didn't know i had an empty drink pack on my desk, i wouldn't have gotten myself to asking why there's a hole in the bottom dets 09 05:48:34 about that particular work, the best quirk is the giant relay-based google with a tiny screen there dets 09 05:49:15 I love the extension of eniac into multivac and microvac. dets 09 05:49:43 But we've already hit the refinement curve he predicted. Long before computers grew to the size of continents. lol dets 09 05:50:13 well, he was not entirely familiar with microchips back then dets 09 05:50:32 our computers don't need to grow to the size of continents dets 09 05:50:35 maybe a moon dets 09 05:50:43 * Dom|Away kannab nüüd nime Dom|Studying dets 09 05:50:48 lol dets 09 05:50:51 Probably not. dets 09 05:50:56 yea, that'd be cool. an artificial server-moon dets 09 05:51:01 He is making an assumption, though. dets 09 05:51:23 It's somewhat Malthusian, even. dets 09 05:51:34 i bet it'd have Google logo on it visible from Earth dets 09 05:51:35 yea. dets 09 05:51:54 Asimov posits that when the suns run out of the fuel they're currently using, they'll all go dark. dets 09 05:52:09 But that doesn't match up with current understanding of stellar evolution. dets 09 05:52:23 * Cookiee (anadn@a63a26.83b507.97ab26.81f0a5) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:53:25 As the stars compress hydrogen into helium, and helium into carbon, then neon, oxygen, silicon, iron and nickel, they create all this denser matter. And we've already found stars that burn helium. dets 09 05:53:57 There's no reason why new types of stars wouldn't develop that burn progressively heavier elements. dets 09 05:54:14 and what'll be the result? dets 09 05:54:24 eventually they'll move up the chain until what? dets 09 05:54:36 assuming that's the thing going to happen dets 09 05:54:40 And if we're on our game and sending out enough gravity tractors to keep at least one galaxy populated with matter, you extend the heat death deadline indefinitely. dets 09 05:55:15 Eventually you have a universe filled with super-heavy elements. Stars that burn uranium. dets 09 05:55:25 Fewer of them, certainly. dets 09 05:55:31 at some point yes dets 09 05:55:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBAQQsJspE&feature=related dets 09 05:55:37 SEE YOU THERE dets 09 05:55:39 * Cesur lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 05:55:50 * Cookie lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 05:55:52 but that's hardly the end of the cycle, i presume dets 09 05:56:22 * Alinaa lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 05:56:25 I would presume the same. dets 09 05:57:00 There might be a reflection point somewhere. Maybe when the stars are burning uranium they'll be ejecting hydrogen instead of radiation. dets 09 05:57:26 Which would renew the stellar nurseries. dets 09 05:57:59 Eventually you need a galactic-sized Dyson sphere to hold the matter and fusion byproducts in, though. dets 09 05:58:10 the reflection point, if any, in my opinion would be after the death of the last even remotely stable element-fueled star dets 09 05:58:27 Maybe. dets 09 05:59:02 I think there's also a possibility that if we survive that long, we may figure out how to move between alternate universes where stellar evolution was delayed, or takes longer. dets 09 05:59:19 Or if M-theory is correct, jump to another brane. dets 09 05:59:30 :p dets 09 05:59:50 well, actually, that's just what we started off with dets 09 05:59:56 There would be lots of universes that wouldn't be suitable for us, but from what the theorists say, there's no end in sight for branes. dets 09 05:59:58 * Seedro (EVISCER@mf-2e4cfd7d.LoyalistC.ON.CA) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 05:59:59 * Seedro lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 05:59:59 * Seedro (EVISCER@PE) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 06:00:46 There's also the possibility that the current expansion is the effect of a larger pattern that will eventually lead to a big crunch scenario anyway. dets 09 06:01:17 yes, but this is highly speculative with no possible explanation in sight. however, it gives you a false sense of hope, a placeholder for a question unanswered. much like the whole religion concept dets 09 06:01:39 Eh, it's not religion. You can't test religious theories. dets 09 06:01:48 You could test these theories, though. dets 09 06:01:50 you can't test M-theory either dets 09 06:01:54 Maybe not now. dets 09 06:02:02 * Aditional lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 06:02:05 same can be said about religion dets 09 06:02:07 But we seem to have a knack for inventing indirect tests. dets 09 06:02:37 Some religious people think religion and science will ultimately meet in the middle, too. dets 09 06:02:41 It's possible, I suppose. dets 09 06:03:11 look, everything you say about theories that have no way of proving in sight, are nothing more than religion in their core. their supporters are nothing less than followers dets 09 06:04:08 It's these untestable theories that have kept us from falling into many, many cataclysmic situations in the past. Asking questions is not faith. dets 09 06:04:17 ask any religious person to prove the existence of god(s) and he'll reply much like the same way you'd answer about any currently unprovable theory dets 09 06:04:25 theories are not asking questions dets 09 06:04:31 Sure they are. dets 09 06:04:38 they are supposed answers to them dets 09 06:04:45 the question is "what happens if.." dets 09 06:04:56 That is science. dets 09 06:05:18 science is a losely defined term dets 09 06:06:05 Mm. Curie asked many questions thought untestable about radiation. She found indirect methods to answer the questions. And we wouldn't be talking over irc right now if she hadn't asked those "unanswerable" questions. dets 09 06:06:20 think of it this way: a long-ass-fucking-time ago, people were wondering why lighting happened. so, someone proposed, there is something, probably much like us, up there, doing this dets 09 06:06:46 and that theory didn't stand the test of observation over time. dets 09 06:06:58 and neither will most theories dets 09 06:07:01 but that's not the point dets 09 06:07:04 But some always do. dets 09 06:07:31 yes, and that's just correct deduction and abstract application of facts dets 09 06:07:34 Some theories turn out to be helpful. Even if the theory is wrong, it leads to a deeper understanding. And usually many more questions, but it's a new plateau to build upon. dets 09 06:07:36 or a lucky guess dets 09 06:08:06 We seem to do pretty well on lucky guesses. dets 09 06:08:12 I just don't think it's luck. dets 09 06:08:46 * P_J_sleeps lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 06:08:50 yes, but that's not what i'm getting at here. religion doesn't neccesarily cloud or obscure the path to truth. christianity, which you will no doubt mention, does not ammount for it dets 09 06:09:16 Malthus had a great understanding of agriculture in his time. He foresaw a great collapse of agricultural output, and a resulting global social collapse. And he said it was going to happen any day now. That was a couple hundred years ago. So what changed? dets 09 06:09:30 it's just to focus our minds and intentions on one thing, to build a possible system, perspective around things we need to further observe dets 09 06:09:37 What does "does not ammount for it" mean? dets 09 06:09:45 amount* dets 09 06:10:21 And in my experience, it's spirituality that does not cloud the path to truth. But religion almost always does. dets 09 06:10:31 Dogma is the enemy of observational theory refinement. dets 09 06:10:51 it means the dark-age church dominance and paranoid fear of science, has nothing to with my point. it was just a way of preserving power. dets 09 06:11:19 but some of the greatest discoveries were made by religious people dets 09 06:11:23 Organized religions will probably always be chasing or preserving power. dets 09 06:11:44 was Einstein not catholic? dets 09 06:11:53 No doubt, religious people have had a huge impact on science. And often they met their ends shortly afterward because the discovery challenged the dogma of the day. dets 09 06:12:07 Einstein catholic? I thought he was Jewish. dets 09 06:12:11 same shit dets 09 06:12:22 But no matter. His religion wasn't his dictator. It was an influence. dets 09 06:12:37 it was a way to close off all the obscuring questions dets 09 06:12:45 to focus on things he could reach dets 09 06:12:55 Yes, fight the future, ignorance is bliss, all that garbage. dets 09 06:13:09 garbage? but you're doing it now dets 09 06:13:21 this very second, you claim that religion is crap dets 09 06:13:21 I don't think Einstein was concerned about how his rabbi might like or dislike relativity. dets 09 06:13:26 * Delta lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 06:13:38 No, I didn't say it's crap. dets 09 06:14:00 nor does his rabbi have anything to do with it, really dets 09 06:14:14 Dogma is definitely in opposition to scientific discovery, though. dets 09 06:14:34 So if you've got a religion with little or no dogma, you're pretty free to conduct your experiments without interference. dets 09 06:14:44 But there aren't many religions like that in the world. dets 09 06:15:00 Hell, I live just a few miles from the "Creation Museum" that the born-agains built. dets 09 06:15:13 There's more intentional stupidity in there than I can shake a stick at. dets 09 06:15:15 * P_J_sleeps (jack.joza@mf-2136dd0e.dynamic.amis.hr) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 06:15:26 the whole point of the religion is to provide placeholder answers to questions. if some people get too attached to those answers, it can't be helped, not everyone can be a great mind dets 09 06:15:27 But they're an unusually dogmatic branch of christianity, granted. dets 09 06:16:04 I thought the point of religion was to maintain social stability and preserve the current balance of powers. dets 09 06:16:14 Or maybe I misread my world history texts. dets 09 06:16:15 lol dets 09 06:16:19 you did, probably dets 09 06:16:49 All religions begin as spiritual idealism, but devolve into mechanisms of social control. dets 09 06:17:05 or didn't really think it through. religions became tools of crowd control when people discovered how easy it is to manipulate masses with it dets 09 06:17:11 Each religion had its heyday when it contributed to the advancement of science within its realm. dets 09 06:18:01 That's what I'm getting at, it's not a religion until there's a hierarchy that wants to defend a status quo, or shift conditions to a more preferable status quo. dets 09 06:18:18 But once the desirable status quo is reached, scientific inquiry gets shut down rapidly. dets 09 06:18:34 that's not religion, that's a form of governing dets 09 06:18:55 I see some exceptions to this, the catholic church has been unusually accommodating to modern cosmology in the last few decades. dets 09 06:19:33 Religion is a form of governance. What else could it possibly be? You can get the spiritual aspect of religion any time or place you want, it doesn't require clergy. dets 09 06:20:23 i was talking about religion on a human-level. without any big picture. spritiuality, as you refer to it. maybe my dictionary is not enough to express myself fully, but that's what i meant. it's not the crowd-control or the blinding, submitting and sabotaging to maintain power dets 09 06:20:33 But once you have clergy and hierarchy, it's no longer about understanding God. Human agendas are introduced and the early idealism is gone. dets 09 06:21:22 clergy was required to spread the religion, for the purpose of educating people. it became something more when fanatics started turning up. and there are always fanatics dets 09 06:21:26 Ok, then we might be on the same page there. I define religion as the organization of people into hierarchies based on a set of spiritual beliefs. dets 09 06:21:45 i define religion as a set of spiritual beliefs :p dets 09 06:21:55 How can you spread a religion without being at least a little fanatical? dets 09 06:22:16 because belief and fanactism are not neccessarily the same thing dets 09 06:22:45 it's the difference between "i like this option" and "there are no other options" dets 09 06:22:59 I agree. Belief is personal, although it can sometimes be communicated. Fanaticism is mostly concerned with persuasion. Or destruction if the persuasion doesn't work. dets 09 06:24:11 well, let me rephrase my original point then dets 09 06:24:12 I think you're using the first definition of this, I'm using the second. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion dets 09 06:24:40 meh, so i'm not the only one using the word in that sense? cool. dets 09 06:25:02 I would argue that the first definition is actually the spiritual aspect of the religion. It's not a religion until people organize those beliefs and formalize the observance of them. dets 09 06:25:19 * KaNNis (mudkipz@70bd24.a8c941.17a327.36b221) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 06:25:25 Well, I don't think it's an accurate definition, but you're with the majority, I suppose. Congrats. :-P dets 09 06:25:33 yay dets 09 06:25:44 truth be told, i was kind of hoping i'm special dets 09 06:25:59 You are. Just like the billions of snow flakes out there. lol dets 09 06:26:20 :p dets 09 06:27:19 but yea, that was my point: science as religion(in my definition), when it comes to theories based on indirect observation dets 09 06:27:24 Ok, so my functional definition of religion is the social dimension of sharing common beliefs. In this light, religion is not copacetic with scientific inquiry. dets 09 06:27:35 * KaNNis lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 06:27:35 * KaNNis (mudkipz@sail.my.boat) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 06:27:35 * ChanServ andis operaatori staatuse kasutajale KaNNis dets 09 06:27:36 Hm. dets 09 06:27:46 But what if you have multiple indirect lines of evidence? dets 09 06:27:55 That's how most science is graded these days. dets 09 06:28:06 One indirect observation isn't enough. dets 09 06:28:09 people believe in different theories dets 09 06:28:16 You have to rule out other possibilities, too. dets 09 06:28:47 Sure. But we can't actually measure the distance to other stars, though. dets 09 06:29:05 So how do we know how far away they really are? And why are we so confident about those measurements? dets 09 06:29:07 * Linia kannab nüüd nime Linia|HoN dets 09 06:29:14 Multiple, independent lines of evidence. dets 09 06:29:17 yes, but since there's no way of doing that. eventually, if you're left with a few choices, some of which are more acceptable to your logic than others dets 09 06:29:24 exactly dets 09 06:29:31 but what if they were contradicting? dets 09 06:29:54 Then the theory would either need refinement, or replacement. dets 09 06:30:06 until someone came up with something better, people would have gone with the one that made more sense to them dets 09 06:30:50 same is with everything dets 09 06:30:53 And that is pretty much what science does. Build upon the currently accepted assumptions until you run into intractable contradictions. Then it's time to go back to the drawing board and reexamine your previous assumptions. dets 09 06:31:27 well, was it not the same with, say, a giant man throwing down bolts of lighting? dets 09 06:31:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9QisdRPwEM dets 09 06:31:31 ok. dets 09 06:32:06 until a better explanation arose, that was quite common dets 09 06:32:33 Sure. I guess that was kind of the scientific consensus of that time. But then somebody came up with a more reasonable explanation that involved atmospheric static discharge, and that solved a whole bunch of other contradictions in one fell swoop. So it became the new assumption. dets 09 06:32:49 exactly dets 09 06:33:05 But then again, from one city to the next, the person throwing the lightening and the reasons why varied. dets 09 06:33:15 So it wasn't really a concensus. dets 09 06:33:30 Only agreed upon within one tribe. dets 09 06:33:33 that's because there wasn't the social governing part of it dets 09 06:33:50 everyone just made a similar assumption dets 09 06:34:13 Yes, but eventually someone just wasn't satisfied with the inconsistencies and worked on the problem. dets 09 06:34:19 Damn troublemakers. dets 09 06:34:20 lol dets 09 06:34:41 well, before that there was a shaman not content with having only one village as his/her bitches dets 09 06:34:45 :p dets 09 06:35:05 That's the one aspect that I have hope in, I guess. Somebody will always be dissatisfied with the contradictions of the current consensus and will work on the problem. dets 09 06:35:21 and yet there are dets 09 06:35:32 There are what? dets 09 06:35:33 * Seedro lahkus (Connection reset by peer) dets 09 06:36:00 as far as anything goes, new religions(in both mine and your terms) are forming dets 09 06:36:17 Yes. They seem to be mellowing with time, though. dets 09 06:36:36 I met a guy who's a follower of Bahai last weekend. Interesting religion. Very non-dogmatic. dets 09 06:36:59 But then again, radical fundamentalism is on the rise in many parts of the world. Like Waziristan and Alaska. dets 09 06:37:08 lol dets 09 06:37:15 fuck them, they can be nuked dets 09 06:37:21 :D dets 09 06:37:23 Eh, I'd rather not. dets 09 06:37:25 lol dets 09 06:37:37 Alaska is pretty, too. dets 09 06:37:53 i would not know dets 09 06:37:54 Damn shame they've got so many loons. Same with Texas and California. dets 09 06:38:17 well, both of them have quite good explanations for that dets 09 06:38:46 But I think that's a short-term reaction to the new paradigms that are emerging. That's happened many times before in the past. And a few generations later, little is left of the fundamentalist mentality. dets 09 06:39:07 some things just come and go dets 09 06:39:40 when faced with an earthly power, religion as a spiritual entity has little to no ground dets 09 06:39:56 Agreed. If you can't provide a more accurate description of what's happening and why, your theories will be replaced by more probable theories. dets 09 06:40:08 and that dets 09 06:40:35 but theories more plausible for many get trampled due to human greed and power hunger dets 09 06:40:45 I guess there will always be small pockets of denial, but that seems to be the larger trend. dets 09 06:41:02 of course dets 09 06:41:16 a few hundred years from now, assuming we havent killed ourselves dets 09 06:41:27 i'd say this would be a pretty interesting place dets 09 06:41:30 religion-wise dets 09 06:41:32 Yes, but the plausible theories outlive the greed and power hunger once the desired resources are exhausted. dets 09 06:41:33 * Miguel (eukaloide@76e8f7.d9f384.d17931.996e01) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 06:42:05 Agreed on the 100 years from now. dets 09 06:42:41 the scariest part is dets 09 06:42:52 science can actually be worshipped as a religion dets 09 06:42:53 I can't wait to see Elvis and Michael Jackson made into a new religion. The Elvites have a head start on the Jacksonites, but they're catching up quickly. dets 09 06:43:24 hey, don't make me get my learther pants and the funky hat dets 09 06:43:27 leather* dets 09 06:43:35 * Miguel lahkus ([MF] Quit: ) dets 09 06:43:50 I can't see how a religion can be organized around science. You can't get the desired social control once you admit that your truths are just based on the best info available now, and may be changed later as new understanding is gained. dets 09 06:44:11 but yes, you can dets 09 06:44:12 got a single glove with sequins? dets 09 06:44:37 So who's running a religion based on science right now? dets 09 06:45:05 you can claim your truths to be the complete void, uncertainty of truths, to believe in that there is nothing to believe in dets 09 06:45:53 I know the Scientologists make that claim, but come on, even a 5th grade science student knows when the emeters are rigged. dets 09 06:46:20 no, scientology is just a disgrace to the word dets 09 06:46:21 :p dets 09 06:46:29 I'm not sure how you can motivate people to fanaticism over believing in nothing. dets 09 06:46:39 it's quite easy dets 09 06:46:45 like today's politics dets 09 06:47:08 more or less all you have to do is prove how full of shit the others are dets 09 06:47:17 You know, you're now contradicting your preferred definition of religion. :-P dets 09 06:47:31 i'm just using your definition of it dets 09 06:47:39 Heh. Nice tyr. dets 09 06:47:40 try dets 09 06:47:45 lol dets 09 06:48:04 I think you need a hook for a religion, just like any other meme. dets 09 06:48:11 Nothing doesn't qualify as a hook. dets 09 06:48:21 oh yes it does dets 09 06:48:23 There has to be a promised benefit. dets 09 06:48:32 There is no benefit implied by believing in nothing. dets 09 06:48:37 The memetics don't work. dets 09 06:48:54 the promised benefit would be enlightenment dets 09 06:49:01 How so dets 09 06:49:02 ? dets 09 06:49:14 How can you be more enlightened if you believe in nothing? dets 09 06:49:17 ultimate knowledge, ascention to higher beings dets 09 06:49:28 Now I think I'm starting to understand why you think ignorance can be bliss. lol dets 09 06:49:45 No, that would be a belief, and an implied benefit to accept the meme. dets 09 06:49:45 no, believing in nothing would be clearing your mind of all obscurities dets 09 06:50:01 freeing it, so to say dets 09 06:50:11 that sounds quite good, does it not? dets 09 06:50:20 Yeah, but nothing leads to nothing. Once you stop meditating, you have to think and act to change your circumstances. dets 09 06:50:30 aha, i spot a hater dets 09 06:50:46 Doesn't sound helpful to me. But then again, I've been meditating for a while and know what nothing has to offer me. dets 09 06:51:21 Which is actually something. But that's another discussion. It doesn't actualize until I can brag to other people about how highly evolved I am because I meditate. lol dets 09 06:51:22 i'm just saying, in religion2's sense, it could sell pretty well dets 09 06:51:49 i mean, take your stanard atheist for instance dets 09 06:51:55 I'm just not seeing it. There's no hook unless you introduce a belief. dets 09 06:52:05 Don't get me started on atheists. dets 09 06:52:19 Never has there been a more self-contradictory view of the universe. dets 09 06:52:26 oh yes, you've thought of this too much, that's why you can't see why nothing can't be something dets 09 06:52:51 Did you read Stranger in a Strange Land? dets 09 06:52:51 if you roll a turd in glitter, it will still be a turd, but at least a shiny one dets 09 06:52:57 this is sounding familiar. dets 09 06:53:06 no, i just have a similar mindset to the writer dets 09 06:53:19 but even the Fosterites had a hook. You got to indulge in immoral behavior if it was for the church. dets 09 06:53:32 ... actually i don't know who wrote that dets 09 06:53:43 well, yes, that's the attraction dets 09 06:53:45 Heinlein. dets 09 06:54:29 Ok, so you're saying that if a religion sells the nothing to its believers, they feel free to indulge their carnal, immoral desires? dets 09 06:54:49 in the "science is religion" thing, the attraction would be quite similar to atheism, but would provide no stupid theories, leaving people free to think whatever the fuck they want, until they speak up. then they'd be stabbed to death by sharpened floppy disks dets 09 06:55:08 lol Fascinating. dets 09 06:55:37 I've looked into lots of religions in my life, I've been looking for a community to call home for a long time. I've never come across that particular tactic. dets 09 06:55:45 i mean, how many people have actually thought religion through to them?? dets 09 06:55:47 The Satanists even have dogma. dets 09 06:55:56 Most don't, obviously. dets 09 06:56:02 It's an inherited thing. dets 09 06:56:15 I'm x religion because my parents were x religion. dets 09 06:56:20 the satanists are just worshiping the same god as our 3 top religion dets 09 06:56:27 And for most people, it's adequate to stop there. dets 09 06:56:28 just the other side of it dets 09 06:56:46 But to build a new religion, you've got to attract people to it. Convince them to piss off their relatives and convert. dets 09 06:57:09 yes, and that's ignorance right there. they're not miserable by it. just content with the explanation and purposly ignoring anyhting that might prove them wrong dets 09 06:57:21 I think the Satanists would say that they're more in touch with the complexities of God. I think they're just rationalizing their kinkiness. dets 09 06:58:06 you need to "eat" the religion with the closest mindset to yours. offer a theory that's not mocked that much by others, or leaves more room for freedom and opinion dets 09 06:58:17 and then just assimilate its followers dets 09 06:58:37 I don't know, maybe it'll happen some day. I just can't see what the attractor is, though. dets 09 06:58:49 for you, there is none dets 09 06:58:58 for me, there's only the religion2 part dets 09 06:59:04 I can be non-religious and engage in whatever activities I want. Don't need a social network for that. dets 09 06:59:06 i happen to like controlling people dets 09 06:59:15 lol dets 09 06:59:22 At least you know your own desires. dets 09 06:59:28 i'm the perfect heretic, actually dets 09 06:59:54 i've gone through ceremonies in most religions available to me dets 09 07:00:01 just for the fun of it dets 09 07:00:06 I like to implant little logic bombs that go off later and disrupt status quo beliefs. Certainly gives me a thrill. But I rarely get to see the bombs go off. dets 09 07:00:20 i've even travelled door to door preaching about god i laugh at dets 09 07:01:11 So maybe you're the type of person that starts these religions. could be. dets 09 07:01:34 well, christianity was started from a noble cause too dets 09 07:01:46 But I still don't see the point of getting together with others who agree on nothingness so we can disagree on everything else. dets 09 07:01:55 and it's main icon was preaching some common words of human kindness dets 09 07:02:10 well, you need to dress it up a bit dets 09 07:02:22 Most religions had a very beneficial impact on their societies early on. It's what happens after that... dets 09 07:02:59 can we stop talking about religions and sttart talking about stuff that realy matters dets 09 07:03:05 like having kids on a table dets 09 07:03:08 and splinters. dets 09 07:03:08 as i said, much like atheism, it'd be based on how crap other religions are. the only thing you can believe in are the things that exist.. or that can be proven my multiple indirect observations. based on this dets 09 07:03:18 heh. If you don't think religion matters, you're not paying much attention. lol dets 09 07:03:30 he just likes to eat children and wood dets 09 07:03:53 So if this hypothetical religion of nothing is possible, why doesn't it exist yet? dets 09 07:04:57 because people who come up with it usually end up in an ally foaming out of their mouths for overdose; suicidal, or locked up in a deserving institution dets 09 07:05:06 and those who don't.. apply it better dets 09 07:05:22 Yes, in memetics that's referred to as autotoxicity. That means the meme ends here. dets 09 07:05:35 lol dets 09 07:06:04 take any once-worshipped figure from history dets 09 07:06:13 stalin for instance dets 09 07:06:30 (still worshipped by many Russians, btw) dets 09 07:06:47 i know, i'm from an ex-soviet country dets 09 07:06:53 Ah, which one? dets 09 07:06:56 Estonia dets 09 07:07:05 No wonder you're so pissed. lol dets 09 07:07:12 pissed at what? dets 09 07:07:16 Bad place to be situated, Estonia. dets 09 07:07:24 meh, you'll get used to it dets 09 07:08:04 besides, it's been quite nice, i was born after the collapse of the soviet union dets 09 07:08:14 I've met a few people from Tallinn before. I've noticed a consistency in their world views. dets 09 07:08:35 yea, well, the sov. regime didn't really take too kindly to religion dets 09 07:08:37 Sort of a fatalism. dets 09 07:08:50 kind of dets 09 07:08:53 :p dets 09 07:08:58 No religion takes kindly to other religions. dets 09 07:09:12 Soviet ideology qualified as a religion, IMO. dets 09 07:09:17 They just didn't like that label. dets 09 07:09:20 yes dets 09 07:09:35 it's basic model is the same i'll be building towards dets 09 07:10:02 But even as god-denying as soviet ideology was, it still had a hook. dets 09 07:10:16 And a darn good one, I'd say: The promise of the end of inequality. dets 09 07:10:25 again, you're underestimating the stupidity of the common man dets 09 07:10:56 * Supalosa (randal.gran@mf-f2a9e1d0.optusnet.com.au) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:10:56 * Supalosa lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 07:10:56 * Supalosa (randal.gran@i.need.a.medic) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:10:57 * ChanServ andis hääle kasutajale Supalosa dets 09 07:11:05 communism is by far the best form of governing ever developed, just that it was never applied correctly dets 09 07:11:14 You can't underestimate the stupidity of masses of people. But I'm talking about memetic transmission vectors here. It's not a grey issue. dets 09 07:11:39 Communism actually means no form of governing, and therein lies the contradition. dets 09 07:11:42 contradiction. dets 09 07:12:07 add enough glitter and spotlight and the turd will blind you into seeing the manifistation of Truth dets 09 07:12:10 ... is this #mmorpg4all? dets 09 07:12:17 Soviet ideology was never actually communist, it was authoritarian socialism. dets 09 07:12:40 no, the ideology they promoted and what people believed in was communism dets 09 07:12:44 Supalosa: Unfortunately, yes. Or fortunately tonight, if you like high-minded bs. dets 09 07:12:47 * KaNNis kannab nüüd nime KaNNis|School dets 09 07:12:51 what actually was, was completely different dets 09 07:12:54 But they never even attempted it. dets 09 07:13:06 Religion is a thing that makes us feel bad about doing bad stuff dets 09 07:13:09 aaand /end dets 09 07:13:43 well, in theory, you shouldn't need some book telling you to not do onto others what you wouldn't like to be done to you dets 09 07:14:03 Thanks Kannis. I'm sure all of the epistemologists in the world just put down their pens, shut down their computers and started thinking about a new line of work. lol dets 09 07:14:27 BUT, same reason why communism can't be applied, people are just way too selfish for this kind of thing dets 09 07:14:28 Children need that book. dets 09 07:14:31 As do most adults. dets 09 07:15:07 our core fault lies within our bestial instincts dets 09 07:15:16 Communism denies biology. That's why it doesn't work. dets 09 07:16:04 And I wouldn't say that our bestial instincts are a fault. They're actually quite handy. Geeky guys had no choice but to invent computers and rockets to get laid. dets 09 07:16:05 lol dets 09 07:16:22 isn't getting laid one of them? dets 09 07:16:23 :p dets 09 07:16:24 wow dets 09 07:16:26 what an essay dets 09 07:16:28 That's the point. dets 09 07:16:45 well, i'd say the need to get laid was just in the way dets 09 07:16:57 Without the biological urge to compete, there would be no reason to create anything new. dets 09 07:17:02 of course they are essential to survival and progression dets 09 07:17:22 Look at the asexual species. Not much innovation going on there. dets 09 07:17:30 * Seedro (EVISCER@mf-2e4cfd7d.LoyalistC.ON.CA) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:17:30 * Seedro lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 07:17:30 * Seedro (EVISCER@PE) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:17:34 They just don't need to. dets 09 07:17:49 but that also means nothing can be pefect as long as it involves humans dets 09 07:18:12 * Supalosa lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 07:18:33 I don't think anything can be perfect until the universe is collapsed into a continuous Bose-Einstein condensate. So waht? dets 09 07:18:51 Perfection is overrated. dets 09 07:19:00 and there, that's your religion dets 09 07:19:00 holy crap dets 09 07:19:01 :p dets 09 07:19:06 Good enough is how the universe runs. dets 09 07:19:09 the positions have reversed! dets 09 07:19:27 * Supalosa (randal.gran@mf-f2a9e1d0.optusnet.com.au) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:19:27 * Supalosa lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 07:19:27 * Supalosa (randal.gran@i.need.a.medic) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:19:27 * ChanServ andis hääle kasutajale Supalosa dets 09 07:19:27 i disconnect now you are both arguing opposite! dets 09 07:19:27 hax dets 09 07:19:29 i for one think there is no definition for perfect dets 09 07:19:46 There will always be some more perfect ideal. dets 09 07:19:48 that's what makes the ideal so fun! dets 09 07:20:15 what will be perfect to me, will probably be a complete chaos to some dets 09 07:20:18 Of course there's a definition for perfect. It's a human concept. dets 09 07:20:26 * ben lahkus (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) dets 09 07:20:58 that's like saying a potato is a fruit because it's made of matter. dets 09 07:21:06 Seedro: All great debates involve at least one side change. lol dets 09 07:21:09 * james|laptop lahkus ([MF] Quit: :)) dets 09 07:21:27 lol'd dets 09 07:21:31 Nah. You're implying that there is such a thing as perfection outside of the human conception of it. I say there isn't. dets 09 07:22:05 actually, i'm implying basically the same thing you're saying, only in a more poetic way dets 09 07:22:13 I beg to differ. lol dets 09 07:22:43 By the way, French is a better language for poetry. English is too messy. And don't even try Russian. dets 09 07:22:47 i said there is no possible definition for perfect, scientific or other wise dets 09 07:22:58 otherwise* dets 09 07:23:05 There is a definition, because definitions are human inventions. dets 09 07:23:13 no one possible* dets 09 07:23:13 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect dets 09 07:23:20 fuck this, it's 7AM dets 09 07:23:23 lol dets 09 07:23:34 i cant type any more dets 09 07:23:50 victory by sleep dep! Yes! dets 09 07:23:52 * Dom|Studying kannab nüüd nime Domenic dets 09 07:23:55 lol dets 09 07:24:01 as the time went by, it's become increasingly difficult to put things into words dets 09 07:24:09 Understandable. dets 09 07:24:13 Fun conversation. dets 09 07:24:18 indeed dets 09 07:24:20 you ever hang out on other irc channels/ dets 09 07:24:21 ? dets 09 07:24:34 not in this network dets 09 07:24:37 * Sa kannad nüüd nime Deluded dets 09 07:24:38 -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . dets 09 07:24:41 -NickServ- Invalid password for Deluded. dets 09 07:24:47 -NickServ- You are now identified for Deluded. dets 09 07:24:47 -NickServ- 1 failed login since Dec 08 20:59:07 2009. dets 09 07:24:47 -NickServ- Last failed attempt from: Deluded!Muhv@mf-c1420e05.sta.estpak.ee on Dec 09 06:24:01 2009. dets 09 07:24:47 I just checked in here to see if m4a was going to be restarted. dets 09 07:24:57 didn't intend to probe the vagaries of the cosmos. dets 09 07:24:59 lol dets 09 07:25:06 well.. dets 09 07:25:12 shit happens :p dets 09 07:25:19 sometimes it's deeper than you'd think dets 09 07:25:23 No kidding. dets 09 07:25:35 Slippery philosophical slope here. dets 09 07:25:53 and now, just to void everything we've just discussed dets 09 07:26:08 it happens because of God. dets 09 07:26:10 :D dets 09 07:26:24 oh sorry, that was fail dets 09 07:26:31 lol dets 09 07:26:36 It was very funny, though. dets 09 07:26:37 i meant to say "it's all a part of His" plan dets 09 07:26:41 UGIHRSÜPIGHDPÜRGihrd dets 09 07:26:49 "it's all a part of His plan" *** dets 09 07:27:16 That's "Her plan", dude. dets 09 07:27:22 lol dets 09 07:27:28 we've been over this dets 09 07:27:34 your mom's not God dets 09 07:27:41 Nor is your dad. dets 09 07:27:46 lol dets 09 07:27:56 for all i know, he very well might be dets 09 07:28:02 never met the bastard myself dets 09 07:28:15 so as far as i know, my mom could be the next virgin mary dets 09 07:28:18 Talk about a messiah complex! dets 09 07:28:20 Yeesh. dets 09 07:28:44 though given the life she lived before me.. i'd hardly call that virgin dets 09 07:29:11 what? a messiah complex is a nice thing to have dets 09 07:29:21 And you think Mary gave birth to Jesus without knowing what a penis is? dets 09 07:29:22 lol dets 09 07:29:39 A messiah complex is nice to have if you want to be a cult leader. dets 09 07:29:50 Otherwise it pretty much sucks. dets 09 07:30:07 not really, it can be applied very well in other fields dets 09 07:30:14 like martyrdom dets 09 07:30:20 Go for it! dets 09 07:30:23 lol dets 09 07:30:29 naw, i'd rather start a cult dets 09 07:30:36 And manifest me a nice steak dinner before you get nailed up. dets 09 07:30:58 I started a cult once. Lost interest. dets 09 07:31:00 speaking of fun gods, i assume you've read Lovecraft's work? dets 09 07:31:04 * Jim lahkus (EOF from client) dets 09 07:31:07 Some of it. dets 09 07:31:13 The elder gods were fun. dets 09 07:31:37 i have a friend who turns into Cthulhu every time he gets too high dets 09 07:31:40 I've had to restrain myself from buying a plush C'thulhu on multiple occasions. dets 09 07:32:07 So you are on some other planet when this happens? dets 09 07:32:17 Otherwise you wouldn't be here to tell me about it. dets 09 07:32:20 lol dets 09 07:32:38 Or the stuff you smoked was spiked... dets 09 07:32:41 it's a very peaceful one dets 09 07:32:41 lol dets 09 07:33:01 A peaceful C'thulhu is a dead C'thulhu. dets 09 07:33:32 he'd just sit on the couch, put his hand near his mouth, move his fingers ike tentacles and go "glugulgulguglguglgu" every once in a while dets 09 07:33:44 it might just be a dead one, though dets 09 07:34:11 If you survived to tell the tale, it wasn't C'thulhu. dets 09 07:34:26 maybe it was a peaceful one from another brane? dets 09 07:34:37 Nice loop back! dets 09 07:34:43 +1 to Deluded. dets 09 07:34:43 thank you dets 09 07:35:29 Ug. need sleep. dets 09 07:35:43 I guess you win this one by reason of sleep dep as well. dets 09 07:35:44 lol dets 09 07:35:47 naw, fuck it. it's nearing 8AM dets 09 07:35:57 there's nothing to win, i'd say we settle for a draw dets 09 07:35:57 * Seedro lahkus (Connection reset by peer) dets 09 07:36:06 Might as well just go to work and pretend like the night never happened at that point. dets 09 07:36:27 i'm just gonna go to class in 2 hours and pretend i'm not asleep behind my laptop dets 09 07:36:46 * Talkbox (Slackjoint@c2afb5.75b7f7.3874da.b360f0) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:37:04 It's worked for so many before, hard to see what could go wrong. :-D dets 09 07:37:26 * Gelarz (semo.123@mf-4c7b5878.red.bezeqint.net) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:37:32 the best part is, i have 3 lectures today, none of which i intended to go to dets 09 07:37:42 and they're all in the row dets 09 07:37:44 in the same room dets 09 07:37:53 that's like almost 7 hours of sleep dets 09 07:38:25 Lecture, smecture. Just wear glasses with pics of your eyes taped over the lenses, prop yourself up decently and sleep the sleep of the dead. Be sure to set an alarm for the end of the last lecture, though. dets 09 07:38:31 Nothing gives you away like not leaving. dets 09 07:38:37 lol dets 09 07:38:57 meh, fuck it, if anyone asks, i'll just say i just fell asleep dets 09 07:39:24 and give a sob story about a dead relative and a prac report gone bad dets 09 07:39:34 You only need an excuse for falling asleep if it's during sex. dets 09 07:40:13 well, there's a lecturer(forgot the correct term), who's said to be very.. intimate during lectures dets 09 07:40:44 Ick. dets 09 07:41:50 there's nothing like sitting in a circle, holding hands and listening to a small middle-age man talk about mathematical logic dets 09 07:43:47 and to the question "why are we sitting in a circle and holding hands" he replies "'cause there aint enough of you for a sphere" dets 09 07:44:21 Time to break out the clean room jump suit. dets 09 07:44:45 gonna go rewatch Elfen Lied dets 09 07:45:34 You will definitely make an impression if you show up for class in one of these: dets 09 07:45:35 http://www.globaleffects.com/C_b08_frameset_main.html?Page=rentalC01_b08_main_bio.html dets 09 07:46:01 My preference: http://www.globaleffects.com/C_pages/Rental/Wardrobe/Costumes/BioHazard/Futuristic/DSC03466_hi.jpg dets 09 07:46:04 lol dets 09 07:46:31 worn a similar, but bulkier one dets 09 07:46:46 as part of a programme to popularize science dets 09 07:46:56 i got to blow shit up, so i aint complaining dets 09 07:46:56 Still got it? dets 09 07:47:28 access to it? yea, if i whine enough, they'd let me use it. though i doubt i could leave the campus grounds with it dets 09 07:48:08 I really enjoyed making C3H5N3O9 in chem class. dets 09 07:48:22 Could you go to this lecture in it? dets 09 07:48:29 That would be amazingly funny. dets 09 07:48:48 Just be ready to take it off quickly so it's not a creepy thing after the laughs fade. dets 09 07:49:03 a similar thing was pulled by my senior dets 09 07:49:15 Excellent. dets 09 07:49:18 but with the arm-lenght gloves the vets use dets 09 07:49:31 and flight goggles dets 09 07:49:42 Vicious prof? dets 09 07:50:09 prof was said to have been literally rofling dets 09 07:50:18 Awesomeness. dets 09 07:50:23 The best result. dets 09 07:50:49 he kept the "costume" though dets 09 07:51:07 He probably wanted to pull the same joke on someone else. dets 09 07:51:13 Can't blame him. dets 09 07:51:14 a few days later, he'd show in the same set, only he had gotten a cape dets 09 07:51:26 lol dets 09 07:51:29 for a party dets 09 07:51:43 he called himself.. umm.. how'd it go in english dets 09 07:51:51 What did the cape make him? I'm not figuring it out. dets 09 07:52:10 "The Gutsqueezer Guy" dets 09 07:52:23 or was it Man dets 09 07:52:30 Ew. dets 09 07:52:44 It went creepy all of a sudden. dets 09 07:52:44 anyhow, he was really keen to try his gloves on people after a few shots dets 09 07:53:14 Maybe you should just go dressed normally. lol dets 09 07:53:27 at first, due to the sheer bulkiness of the gloves, he had others lift his glass dets 09 07:53:36 but then, he settled for a straw dets 09 07:53:56 And got hammered that much quicker. Lovely. dets 09 07:54:09 it was tequila dets 09 07:54:21 Yeah, that sounds consistent at this pont. dets 09 07:54:22 he had the most bloody nuclear hangover. ever. dets 09 07:54:41 he would have looked better dead and rotten, seriously dets 09 07:54:52 He's lucky the costume didn't come with the face mask instead of goggles. dets 09 07:54:57 He could've drowned. lo. dets 09 07:54:58 lol dets 09 07:55:08 i don't remember him throwing up though dets 09 07:55:17 well, i don't remember a lot from that evening dets 09 07:55:24 Tequilla usually = puking. dets 09 07:55:39 meh dets 09 07:55:42 depends dets 09 07:55:52 i don't get any hangovers, ever dets 09 07:55:54 That damn cactus is the work of the christian devil, I swear. dets 09 07:56:20 nooo dets 09 07:57:15 it's a sweet sweet nectar which frees my mind from ethical boundaries and pants, and makes my friend think he's a riksha driver dets 09 07:58:03 it's serious, like 50% of the tequila-nights usually end with me pantless dets 09 07:58:04 * Seedro (EVISCER@mf-2e4cfd7d.LoyalistC.ON.CA) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:58:04 * Seedro lahkus (Changing hosts) dets 09 07:58:04 * Seedro (EVISCER@PE) liitus kanaliga #mmorpg4all dets 09 07:58:27 and my friend spends long hours asking if people want to get on his riksha dets 09 07:59:18 Ok, maybe the Hindu devil, Rahu I think. dets 09 08:00:06 Tequilla certainly has many devotees. dets 09 08:00:25 Masochists every one. dets 09 08:00:28 lol dets 09 08:00:41 why yeesh dets 09 08:01:29 though if asked my booze of choice, i'd rather go with beer dets 09 08:02:06 I'm a whiskey fan... because I'm poor dets 09 08:02:30 a tolerable whiskey costs a fucking fortune dets 09 08:03:06 those with normal prices taste like soap with moonshine dets 09 08:03:49 they cost more than beer where you are from? dets 09 08:03:54 cheap as hell here dets 09 08:04:06 good beer costs waaay more dets 09 08:04:36 good beer is like half the cost of the cheap whiskey per litre dets 09 08:04:38 but I get shitty cheap shit... I don't drink enough to care if it tastes like crap... dets 09 08:04:41 or 1/4 even dets 09 08:04:52 but it's way less % alcohol... dets 09 08:05:41 if you go by alcohol concistencies, you'd be best off drinking cheap colgone dets 09 08:06:09 eh I weigh my options... dets 09 08:06:14 it's not the WORST whiskey either dets 09 08:06:15 >.> dets 09 08:06:32 maybe beer is just cheaper there X: dets 09 08:06:42 or whiskey more expensive... w/e dets 09 08:06:46 we've always lived on beer dets 09 08:08:00 Ah. Decent beers here aren't too bad, less then whiskey. Although good whiskey is just as expensive. dets 09 08:08:17 There are so many cheap beers, but I don't like any of them. dets 09 08:08:36 I like a good rum. dets 09 08:08:46 Not too expensive for decent quality here. dets 09 08:09:09 I find rum to be the most consistant no matter what brand dets 09 08:09:23 so it's always a safe bet getting something you've never tried dets 09 08:09:51 The local product in Cincinnati is beer, though. Cheap, watered down beer until recently. A few breweries here are good, but most are massive production operations, very factory-like. dets 09 08:10:13 I like Gosling's Black Seal rum. dets 09 08:10:21 It's dark. Strong taste. dets 09 08:11:16 i don't think we even get it here dets 09 08:11:36 at least i think i've never heard of it dets 09 08:11:44 then again, rum is a sell-out drink here dets 09 08:12:13 everyone drinks some cheap crappy rum and thinks they're cool like the carribeans dets 09 08:12:14 :p dets 09 08:12:15 http://www.bigvidpro.com/?v=UlaAk4yCkvFsVK52yQjvDg